This is a reply to those who are providing the “lineages” as logic for FDG decision. “Lineage” means “caste Goswami”. Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur both condemned the caste Goswamis as Sahajiyas!
Srila Prabhupada wrote in his Back to Godhead magazine, Y4, Vol. 1, part 9, in March 1952:
“As a bonafide Acharya of the Brahma-Madhya-Gaudiya Sampradaya the mission of Sree Srimad Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami was to re-establish the pure form of theism as propounded by Lord Chaitanya in the line of his predecessors. Lord Chaitanya preached only the teachings of Bhagwat Geeta in the most practical way to suit the present environment created by the dark age of quarrel and fight. In the latter-age calculated to be two hundred years before the advent of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaj many pseudo-spiritualistic parties in the name of Lord Chaitanya grew up like mushrooms to exploit the noble sentiment of spiritualism of the innocent people of Earth. Such pseudo-spiritualistic parties deviated poles asunder from the preaching of Lord Chaitanya because they were unfit to undergo the disciplic regulations and as such, they had mitigated a via-media principle of rotten materialistic idea with pure spiritualism.
They misunderstood the highest form of worship contemplated by the Gopies of Brindaban in the transcendental loving pastimes of Lord Shree Krishna and misidentified the spiritual process with a materialistic idea of erotic principle. As such the highest principle Rashlila stated in the Bhagwat to be understood and relished at the stage of the Paramhansas was made a plaything by such pseudo parties are known as the Oal, Baoul, Nera, Karta Bhaja, Sain, Darbesi Sakhi-vekhi, Sahajia, Caste Goswamins, Caste Brahmins and so on. These pseudo parties passed as the disciples of Lord Chaitanya with their cheap nefarious activities and of all the above parties the Sahajias and the Caste Goswamins became the most obstinate obstructors to the onward progress of the universal movement of Lord Chaitanya.”
Isn’t it that caste gosvamis and prakrta-sahajiyas are two completely different kinds of deviations ? The term sahajiya is sometimes generalized for all 13 apa-sampradayas, but perhaps it is more correct to distinguish those who are immoral and promiscuous and those who are strict on that, but are proud of their seminal pedigree. It appears to be two categorically different kinds of deviations.
Mahaprabhu Gaura, I believe that to be the case. Both parties are prakrta-sahajiyas whom have simply deviated on opposite sides of the razor of authentic spiritual life.
Technically, they are different, but I’ve seen some descriptions of the worship of these gurus as incarnations of this or that gopi, so it could be said that, like sahajiyas, caste goswamis think themselves more advanced than they actually are. I guess it varies by each particular lineage, too.
But, even if female gurus in these lines were genuine and WERE incarnations of various gopis – that actually sets a much higher standard than expected from female devotees today to qualify for diksha guru status!
Either way, as far as I know, presence of female gurus in those lineages wasn’t considered as an argument for the recent GBC resolution. It was featured in 2013 SAC paper, though.
But this quote is making the rounds as a reason for having FDGs. BR Sagara Swami (former Uttama Sloka) posted it on his FB page and he was just sharing it from Kavicandra Swami. So you can see that these not very careful thinkers actually believe that these were bona fide lineages who had 30% FDGs. It is really scary to see how many people in ISKCON suffer from stupidity. Especially in the higher echelons.
Cipolla’s five fundamental laws of stupidity:
Always and inevitably each of us underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.
The probability that a given person is stupid is independent of any other characteristic possessed by that person.
A person is stupid if they cause damage to another person or group of people without experiencing personal gain, or even worse causing damage to themselves in the process.
Non-stupid people always underestimate the harmful potential of stupid people; they constantly forget that at any time anywhere, and in any circumstance, dealing with or associating themselves with stupid individuals invariably constitutes a costly error.
A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person there is.
The first book in English on stupidity was A Short Introduction to the History of Stupidity by Walter B. Pitkin (1932):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupidity
But this quote is making the rounds as a reason for having FDGs by persons with a fatal case of confirmation bias. BR Sagara Swami (former Uttama Sloka) posted it on his FB page and he was just sharing it from Kavicandra Swami who apparently got it from Tripurari Swami (who is totally bogus). So you can see that these not very careful thinkers actually believe that these were bona fide lineages who had 30% FDGs. It is really scary to see how many people in ISKCON are intellectually challenged. Especially in the higher echelons. They not only not very careful thinkers, they also do not read much sastra, or the histrory of our sampradaya or delve very deep into Krsna’s Vedic culture. And if you mention something other than Gita, Krsna Book, Bhagavatam and Caitanya Caritamrta (not that they have read them) then they flip out and just say that it is bogus and can’t be accepted. That is what happened recently. They began foaming at the mouth when Pancaratra, Mimamsa, and Bharadvaja Samhita where introduced. And of course they try to deprecate Manu Samhita. They want to undermine anything that doesn’t support them. But these texts are basic texts studied in any traditional gurukula in India. It just shows that ISKCON West is for the most part is just Mllechas with tilak who are afraid of and spit on anyone who has learned the tradition.
Cipolla’s five fundamental laws of stupidity:
1 Always and inevitably each of us underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.
2 The probability that a given person is stupid is independent of any other characteristic possessed by that person.
3 A person is stupid if they cause damage to another person or group of people without experiencing personal gain, or even worse causing damage to themselves in the process.
4 Non-stupid people always underestimate the harmful potential of stupid people; they constantly forget that at any time anywhere, and in any circumstance, dealing with or associating themselves with stupid individuals invariably constitutes a costly error.
5 A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person there is.
The first book in English on stupidity was A Short Introduction to the History of Stupidity by Walter B. Pitkin (1932):
The list is originally from 2013 SAC paper. I have no idea how Tripurari Swami’s name got attached to it.
Sahajiya means to take things easily or cheaply, how this manifests will depend on the group some will be gross sensualists others may deviate in other ways.
Isn’t it that caste gosvamis and prakrta-sahajiyas are two completely different kinds of deviations ? The term sahajiya is sometimes generalized for all 13 apa-sampradayas, but perhaps it is more correct to distinguish those who are immoral and promiscuous and those who are strict on that, but are proud of their seminal pedigree. It appears to be two categorically different kinds of deviations.
Mahaprabhu Gaura, I believe that to be the case. Both parties are prakrta-sahajiyas whom have simply deviated on opposite sides of the razor of authentic spiritual life.
Technically, they are different, but I’ve seen some descriptions of the worship of these gurus as incarnations of this or that gopi, so it could be said that, like sahajiyas, caste goswamis think themselves more advanced than they actually are. I guess it varies by each particular lineage, too.
But, even if female gurus in these lines were genuine and WERE incarnations of various gopis – that actually sets a much higher standard than expected from female devotees today to qualify for diksha guru status!
Either way, as far as I know, presence of female gurus in those lineages wasn’t considered as an argument for the recent GBC resolution. It was featured in 2013 SAC paper, though.