Guest (2): My son who lives in America is very Westernized, and as he picked up Gītā, and he tried to understand it, now he now is so much a follower of Gītā that every single letter he quotes Gītā to anyone whom he writes.
Prabhupāda: Which Gītā he has read?
Guest (2): He’s very convinced about it.
Prabhupāda: No, no, which Gītā he has read?
Guest (2): Your Gītā.
Prabhupāda: My Gītā?
Guest (2): Your Gītā and Cinmayananda’s, two Gītās.
Prabhupāda: Cinmayananda is atheist. Atheist. He does not believe in Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2): He has donated over three hundred books in that haṭha-yoga, that can…
Guest (1): Yes, in USA, Santa Cruz.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he took some lakhs of rupees from Birla for distributing the Gītā. I know that.
Guest (2): He has also translated Gītā.
Guest (1): Shh! Swāmījī’s saying is this, that Gītā is interpreted by different people in different way. That is true. Understanding of Gītā is a very big…
Prabhupāda: He does not present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. According to his own whims. But the original śloka is there.
Guest (1): But interpretation is his own.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Why have you said Cinmayananda, atheist?
Prabhupāda: There are so many statements. In his book there are so many statements. Does he recommend to worship Kṛṣṇa?
Guest (2): Does he recommend…?
Guest (1): Does he recommend to worship Śrī Kṛṣṇa?
Guest (2): I don’t know. I have not read…
Prabhupāda: So then why you are asking about him? (laughter)
Guest (2): No, my point is he is preaching religion…
Prabhupāda: He is nonsense. You do not know about him, and you are asking about him. That is the pity. “He is supposed to be a great (indistinct).” If you know about him, then speak.
Guest (2): No, I don’t know enough about him.
Prabhupāda: Then why you are recommending? Then why you are recommending?
Guest (2): But he’s preaching religion.
Prabhupāda: That means you don’t know religion.
Guest (1): He is preaching Gītā, that’s true, but as Swāmījī says, that is interpretation of his own. Original words are there. Everybody who speaks about Gītā…
Prabhupāda: Religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. But he does not recommend to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. What does he know about Kṛṣṇa? That is the difficulty. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is religion, and he is preaching religion?
Guest (1): He’s supposed to be one of the biggest propagator of Gītā. He had Gītāra Jñāna Yajña in Bombay. There were thousands of people there.
Prabhupāda: False, everything false. Misled. He does not recognize Kṛṣṇa, he does not recognize religion, and he is religious.
Guest (1): One of the best religious leaders. That’s what people think.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that may be, falsely representation, but where he is recommending that “You surrender to Kṛṣṇa and worship Him”? Has he done that? That means misleading. He can become a very good orator, and he can get claps, but what is the benefit? He’s a good orator, there is no doubt about it. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that “You become a orator and cheat others.” He does not say. He says, “Surrender unto Me.” So if actually one is preaching, he should teach the audience that “Surrender to Kṛṣṇa.” And that is reading of Bhagavad-gītā. If I take Bhagavad-gītā and speak something of my opinion, that means I am cheating. I am taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā, and I am impressing people with my nonsense ideas.
Guest (1): That’s right.
Prabhupāda: If you want to cheat others, you cheat in your own way. Why do you take Bhagavad-gītā?
Guest (1): Don’t take the protection of Bhagavad-gītā. That is doubly wrong.
Prabhupāda: That is great cheating, great cheating.
Guest (1): In the name of Bhagavad-gītā…
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): …one should not (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Everyone is doing that.
Guest (1): Yes. We have many propagations of Gītā in this country.
Prabhupāda: He is preaching his own ideas and taking Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest (1): Yes. Under the umbrella of Bhagavad-gītā he does it.
Prabhupāda: Smoking gāñjā with a friend’s hand because there is smell, so the friend’s hand will smell. (Hindi) (laughter) This is going on. (Hindi)
Guest (1): There will be immediate protest the moment… This film has got the connotation that Hare Kṛṣṇa means… Now, these boys, by their own conduct and by their own hard work, whosoever has come into contact with them have realized that this is genuine, and actually those…
Prabhupāda: No, you see, something cheating which is going on for long time, to stop it, it will take some time.
Guest (1): Yes. Unless and until the people who are well-to-do…
Prabhupāda: We have got one little test. You can also use that. Kṛṣṇa says,
na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)
So you make one test: whether he has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. If he has not done, then he is in these four categories. What are they? Duṣkṛtina, great sinful; mūḍha, rascal; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say, “Oh, these are so big, big learned scholar,” now māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam. Asura. Asura’s business is to deny Kṛṣṇa and to kill Kṛṣṇa. So all these people, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, and they are trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana in background) Is it not a fact? All these big, big leaders, they’ll speak on Bhagavad-gītā, and they will never say that “Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You surrender to Him.”
Guest (2): A friend of mine has surrendered to Cinmayananda. He says he is giving Bhagavad-gītā four hours a day (indistinct). Not for surrendering.
Prabhupāda: But not for surrendering.
Guest (2): “He is using the Bhagavad-gītā for our day-to-day life.” I said to him, “Why? Why can’t you (indistinct)?” but not surrendering as Swāmījī has said.
Prabhupāda: So they have made their own meaning. “Bhagavad-gītā is not meant for surrender.” Just see. (end)
761225MW-BOMBAY – December 25, 1976