SABHA to recommend Gay Culture be integrated into ISKCON

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• One can observe no importance of ones sexual orientation in rendering service to the lord, IF that is what all the sexual nominated sub groups want to do... But pushing/ demanding some sort of general acceptance, or some special rights is Nonsense... then we are giving material nominations more importance then the focus on practice of Krsna consciousness...
  Do what you want in the privacy of your 4 walls as others do... we will all conclude that story with lord Yamaraja in due time...
  If we become actually truly pure devotees of the lord then this stupidity will not be even an issue...

• Prabhupada put them in a situation to overcome this material conditioning by getting them married or as sannyasi being under constant observation by the devotee community. Of course later it came out that this did not work very well. When seeing what happened in the Catholic Church there has to be a strict ban on gays within the management.

• Why should one need to be included. Iskcon is already open to all. By including what it means is right to positions. But positions are by qualifications, and following 4 regs is one imp qualification for most positions. So a class of people who are defined by their way of seeing sex are by default unacceptable for positions in Iskcon. Sex life is only meant for procreation, IDEALLY, and one needs to at least accept this idea to have a position in Iskcon. As it is, even in India we are finding it difficult to make sure that those who are not following purity don't get in positions, and this is with conventional married people who believe in believing in sastra. How are u going to monitor this new inclusion, a class which is defined to encourage sex for needs other than procreating.

  Although the author opposes this inclusion, I disagree with the statement:
  'Of course not many will maintain celibacy and will need to get married, so same sex marriage proposal will soon follow'
  because marriage is not for sex, but for procreating. Others can marry, but then they are not following 4 regs. Marriage or no marriage, celibacy is must, unless for procreation. This is all ideal. Of course not many can be ideal, but then why they want positions. Iskcon programs - morning program, festivals, public feasts, even chanting - is open to all. If someone is having social opposition, they have to address the problem without watering down the philosophy. Iskcon philosophy cannot be changed for individual issues. Everyone faces social issues or some kind of opposition; you cannot play with spiritual principles for social needs. Social correctness will give nothing. Spiritual correctness will bring all kinds of welfare - social, emotional, economical.

  Basically the authorities need to be detached, that's all. Everything is clear. What's lacking is detachment and faith in the philosophy's teachings and instructions. Without proper authority nothing can be achieved. HDG wanted brahmanas to be the authority for society ...

  • Sir , if you are celebate or a Baal brahmachari , not that everyone be a naistika brahmachari like you ....Mr pure this class is not define by their sexual orientation ...,....yes according to the sastras sex life is only for procreation ,we do respect that but plz check urself once weather you have followed it in ur life or not Mr pure ....then talk , preaching is very easy but practising is very difficult.......purity is must we do agree but I am asking you have you used ur sexual power " only " for begetting children then you plz preaching here or else we too Know what happens in your life too.......we respect prabhupad and his teachings .

• The links given by G Kesava Das in his comments are all either Wikipedia articles or a book by a non-devotee. No bonafide reference in any of the links.

  • You please provide the bonafide links ........ we will see what it says

• Just follow Srila Prabhupada's own example and everything will be fine. Srila Prabhupada was very kind and accepting of his gay, lesbian and transgender disciples. He was never nasty toward them and he never kicked them away. He encouraged everyone to follow the principles but if they were unable then they could live outside the temple, render service and remain a part of the congregation. I hope the GBC reaches a wise and compassionate decision in this regard. ISKCON should never tolerate or allow any minority group to be mistreated, abused or rejected by its members and centers.

  • Another fudge packer

    • As the moderator of this comment section, I request everyone to please take it easy on the name calling. If you disagree with someone, please elaborate your point and make your comments valuable to other readers. Provocative one-liners won't bring anyone to your side. In fact, the opposite is more likely: they make the other side of the discussion seem more sane and civilized than you.

      • He has a need to lecture anyone who doesn't agree with him. It was a mistake to even attempt to deal with him. I will just block him and not have to see the dolt.

        • Just see he's loosing it ........he's getting anger means he's defeated ......if you are true follower of Prabhupad and a pure devotee give strong counters to me ......you can't because you are wrong ...if u accept it you it's good for you ......I am free here to give lectures to the homophobic people ......I have an every right to fight for my rights .........yes it's a mistake to deal with me true finally you admitted that you have done mistake kudos to you.........plz block me so that I can be in hell .......how funny ..........just see how's he's running away looser

    • Watch your words ........ How can you jump to conclusions weather he's a fudge packer or not , this shows your great vaishnava qualities

      • Murka

        • King of murka , nonsense fellow just try to understand , homophobic ......I wish you were gay

        • Sad

        • Oh so sad here too ......we don't want to disrespect anyone here but as a jiva and part and parcel of krishna I have an every right that you are having to serve krishna who are we to judge someone , maybe we are imperfect but where is ur perfect ness , if you are so perfect where is your mercy on fallen souls , vaishnavas are desire trees , ocean of mercy , paradukhadukki ..................no one can judge anyone's love towards Krishna.....who knows they may advance very quickly than you no one knows .......but still we respect you as a devotee ........plz don't mind for heated argument s .......plz forgive our offenses

        • Stop judging me and lecturing to me. Narakam gaccha

        • Just see your standard of vaishnavisam ........even the opposite party is trying to come down ....still he's agreesive ... prabhupad always mentioned that anyone who is getting anger in argument he's lossing it , so it's clear and obvious that you are a loser ..........first you should stop judging everyone ........not even pure devoteee behaves cheaply like you .........by the way I am Keen to give lectures to any murkhas here ......... hope we will meet you in hell soon............ homophobic

• We need to support Pancaratna Prabhu on this. We need to now speak in a unified voice as he said. Best for ISKCON India to throw out the GBC and let the Bureau run India.

• Its simple. Srila Prabhupada started ISKCON and made it to be run according to his books and teachings. His books and teachings condemn Homosex. Of course homosexuals are welcome to join in but not practice any of their 'activities'. If some ISKCON members want to integrate Gayism in ISKCON then that is illegal and they will have no way to manipulate Guru, sadhu and sastra or Srila Prabhupada's teachings to fit it in. So they either leave ISKCON or agree to be called deviants. If they agree to be called deviants then they should be thrown out of ISKCON as why should deviants run ISKCON?

  • His books and teachings condem the sex other than procreation .,......... They won't support the homosexual activity but as a uttama adhikari he loved everyone ....,....... If you have used ur sexual power only for begetting children then you plz talk because you are perfect ..........if not don't lecture here , because his teachings are against sex other than procreation where in you also fall under this category .

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_India

  While I am not a proponent of any form of homosexuality I would suggest that devotees educate themselves about the role that such minor sinful behaviour played in Indian society since time immemorial. Both hetero and homo sexuals sins are described in the sastras. But whereas in Mleccha sastras, like the Bible, homosexual sins are considered as cardinal or major sins, in the Vedic sastras they are considered as minor sins. The major sexual sins described in Vedic sastras are heterosexual because of the possibility of creation of varna sankara or unwanted progeny (see Gita 1.42).
  Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_India

  The Arthashastra, an ancient Indian treatise on statecraft, mentions a wide variety of sexual practices which, whether performed with a man or a woman, were sought to be punished with the lowest grade of fine. While homosexual intercourse was not sanctioned, it was treated as a very minor offence, and several kinds of heterosexual intercourse were punished more severely.
  Sex between non-virgin women incurred a small fine, while homosexual intercourse between men could be made up for merely with a bath with one's clothes on, and a penance of "eating the five products of the cow and keeping a one-night fast" – the penance being a replacement of the traditional concept of homosexual intercourse resulting in a loss of caste.

  For Further information about sexual life in Ancient India Vols 1 & 2 people can read: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.189829/page/n7
  and: Vol 2: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.189830/page/n3

  Of course some attitudes changed with the coming of the Mughal and British conquests and rule and even recently we see the Supreme Court of India ruling to legalize homosexuality:

  On 24 August 2017, India's Supreme Court gave the country's LGBT community the freedom to safely express their sexual orientation. Therefore, an individual's sexual orientation is protected under the country's Right to Privacy law. However, the Supreme Court did not directly overturn any laws criminalizing same-sex relationships.
  On 6 September 2018, consensual gay sex was legalised by India's Supreme Court.
  Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC), dating back to 1861, makes sexual activities "against the order of nature" punishable by law and carries a life sentence.The law replaced the variety of punishments for Zina (unlawful intercourse) mandated in the Mughal empire's Fatawa-e-Alamgiri, these ranged from 50 lashes for a slave, 100 for a free infidel, to death by stoning for a Muslim. Similarly the Goa Inquisition once prosecuted the capital crime of sodomy in Portuguese India, but not lesbian acts.

  There have also always been homosexuals in ISKCON, and during the time of Srila Prabhupada this was dealt with in a similar way as under the Clinton Administration's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays in the US military.
  So just like in India, ISKCON today finds itself having to speak more openly about this subject. Espcially now that it is legal in many countries including India.
  Hari Bhakti Vilasa 1.200 states that the Guru has to examine the potential disciple and understand their sexuality apart from other qualifications when deciding what mantra to initiate them into.

  • Purity is must to get out of this material world.............no matter one is homo , hetero or bi

  • The links given by G Kesava Das in his comments are all either Wikipedia articles or a book by non-devotee. No bonafide reference in any of the links.

    • As may have noticed by now that GK is a Kali chela, posing as a devotee who wants to sew chaos in Vaisnavism. Everything he writes has to be double and tripled checked as he is a kutarki.

      • How can you say he's kalicela ..... don't judge ..... after all it's a virtual platform how can judge people in a discussion ...,.......no one can create chaos in vaishnavisam like you with ur judgmental nature ............ One should also check ur statements thousand times because subtle hate is there in ur comments...,..you can't generalise things

        • I have known him for 40 years and can judge. You are the one who can't.

        • You may know him for thousands of years but still if u r not open to understand their mind or their suffering what kind of. Vaishnava you are ........I May not be knowing him personally but still I love to show mercy on them as prabhupad did without compromising.

        • Murka

  • Prabhuji, you started of your comment by writing "I am not a proponent of any form of homosexuality"

    Are you sure about that?