Haribol Prabhus!
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Yes, we are JIVAS, we are not the body.
We are equal.
But it would be better not to approach a tiger to explain this philosophical point!
WE ARE EQUAL in the sense that both men and women are employed in the eternal function; SANATANA-DHARMA. In that sense … Yes, we are EQUAL (we fulfill the same function).
But, the INCARNATED beings have DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS, different HIERARCHIES, different ACTIONS.
Men acts according to the VARNA in which they are situated, and women serves the men.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 3.31.40: “God created woman to serve man.”
What do Parvati, Jahnavi, Sita, Gandhari do?
Who is in charge of serving the fathers of humanity? Who serves the masters of knowledge, the Mahajanas? Women.
WOMEN ARE NOT GURUS. THIS IS COMPLETELY ARTIFICIAL.
THE WOMAN’S GURU IS THE HUSBAND – PATI-GURU.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 6-18.33 and 34. PATI-GURU.
For the woman, the supreme demigod, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the husband, Lord Vāsudeva, the husband of the goddess of fortune. “Pati-guru”, that is, spiritual master-husband. The husband represents the Lord as an object of worship for the woman.
The following are quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s purports in both Srimad Bhagavatam and Chaitanya Charitamrita on the subject of women:
In Srimad Bhagavatam 7.12.9. “He who does not see the difference between a man and a woman should be considered an animal”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 3.31.40. “God created the woman to serve the man.”
In Srimad Bhagavatam 1.9.48. “The woman’s duty is to follow the husband one hundred percent.”
In Srimad Bhagavatam 6.17.34 and 35. “Even at the highest levels of existence, women are INFERIOR the men.”
In Srimad Bhagavatam 2.7.6. “The woman is an OBSTACLE in self-realization (the masculine form is for SELF-REALIZATION).
In Srimad Bhagavatam 7.12.7. “The commandment that restricts the relationship with women is the basic principle of spiritual life.”
In Srimad Bhagavatam 9.10.11. “The Vedic system does not admit that women are independent”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 3.23.2. “Even if there is something the husband has done wrong, the woman must tolerate it.”
In Srimad Bhagavatam 3.31.35. “Brahmacaris and Sannyasis are strictly forbidden to talk to women”.
In Bhagavad-gita 16.7. “A woman should not given freedom. The woman is like a CHILD”
At London during a television interview, on July 9, 1975: “According to the Vedic criteria, a woman should never be offered any leadership.”
In Srimad Bhagavatam 9.3.10. “The Dharma of women is submission and chastity”. (Sukanya; submission and chastity.)
The Mahajanas are twelve. It is the man who prescribes the duties of women, and not VICE VERSA.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 6.19.17. “The wife must worship her husband as the representative of the Supreme Lord”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.19. “A woman should think of the husband as the Supreme Lord”. Srila Madhvacarya.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 1.14.37. “Satyabhama was eager to be instructed by Draupadi, about the manner and manner of satisfying her husband”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 7.12.7. “Brahmacaris and sannyasis should avoid talking to women”.
In Chaitanya Charitamrita, in the introduction to Chapter 13: “Sannyasis and Vaisnavas should not listen to the women sing”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 3.31.40. “The woman is the representation of Maya”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 4.18.3. “An independent woman cannot be satisfied either in this life (asmin) or in the next (amusmin)”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 1.9.48. “The wife’s duty to follow her husband one hundred percent”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 1.11.36. “The path that goes back to God always FORBIDS the relationship with women”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 4.3.9. “Women expand the field of enjoyment”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 6.18.42. “The woman is selfish by nature”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 6.18.11. “Accepting a woman’s service means falling into a blind well”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 3.25.30. “The woman is not very intelligent”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 1.7.42. “Women lack the power of discrimination that men have.”
In Srimad Bhagavatam 7.7.16. “My mother, due to the lack of intelligence of women …” (words of Prahlada).
In Srimad Bhagavatam 10.29.25. “The woman should never abandon her husband, if he wants a good destination in the next life”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 9.9.32. “A woman who has not married is like a corpse”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 9.9.32. “Independence for a woman means miserable life. In this age, so many girls are unmarried and falsely imagining themselves free, but their life is miserable. Here is an instance in which a women felt that without her husband she was nothing but a dead body”.
In Bhagavad-gita 16.23: “He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.25 to 29:
“Offer service to the husband and always show a favorable attitude. The chaste woman must be well dressed and adorned for her husband’s pleasure. She must always wear clean and attractive clothes: she must sweep and clean the house with water and other liquids, to so that the whole house is always kept clean, pure and scented.You must be in charge of getting everything you need for the home.You must always be willing to satisfy your husband’s wishes.M modest, truthful, with the senses under control, sweet in her language, the chaste and intelligent woman must work in the service of her husband with love.The woman must not be greedy, but must feel satisfied in all circumstances, she must be very expert in the administration of the home, and she must know perfectly the religious principles In her words, she must be honest and pleasant, she must be very careful and always keep herself clean and pure, so that the woman must deal with affection in the service of her husband. He must be a worthy servant of the Lord, and the woman must be an ideal wife. In that case, both will be so faithful, so strong that, thanks to that unified effort, they will return home, back to God, which is the goal of life. And they will live very happy in the world of perfection, the spiritual world”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 4.3.9. “Women are the representation of the basic principle of material enjoyment.”
In the Siksamrita – letters of Srila Prabhupada: “Men must be separated from women and women from men”. (letter sent to Satsvarupa, July 12, 1968).
Within the movement, Srila Prabhupada never mentioned that his female disciples ought to occupy leadership positions. Neither as members of the GBC nor as temple presidents.
In SB. 4.27.1. “The woman is 9 times more lustful than the man”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 4.25.62. “To advance spiritually you must leave the company of women. This is the meaning of the sannyasa order, the resignation order”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 9.20.22. “The son saves the father, not the mother. (put and putra)”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 4.25.62. “Captivated by a woman, like an animal that dances under the control of its owner.”
In Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11. of text 25 to 29. “The duty of women; GRIHINI”. (housewife).
In Srimad Bhagavatam 4.25.62. “To advance spiritually it is necessary to leave the company of women”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 9.10.11. “The Vedic system does NOT admit under any circumstances that the woman is independent (asamaksam), because the woman CANNOT protect herself”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 6.6.1:
“WOMEN SHOULD NEVER BE INDEPENDENT. If the husband is trained to achieve liberation, his wife will be released along with him. As stated in the śāstra, the wife shares the results of the husband’s pious activities. Therefore, the woman has a duty to be very chaste and faithful to her husband. In that case, without the need for further efforts, you will participate in all the progress your husband makes”.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 1.11.24. “Female respectability is preserved in a more elegant way by keeping women separated from men.”
“The woman who wants to lead kirtans, who does it among women, or also in the house of grihastras” – “Prema Pradipa” by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.
The leadership of women is something that does not exist in Vaishnavism.
From the beginning, Srila Prabhupada did not appoint female disciples to crucial leadership positions in ISKCON, the BBT, and his MVT.
Sila Prabhupada was once asked, “We have the perfect philosophy, the perfect way of life, and the perfect guru Srila Prabhupada), so why do we have so many problems in our society?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Because the brahmacaris and sannyasis mix too much with the women”. (told by Giriraja Swami).
“Sannyasis and Vaisnavas should NOT listen to women sing ” From CC Antya-lila – introduction to Chapter 13.
In Srimad Bhagavatam 3.23.54. “In general, all women aspire to material pleasure.”
“Seventy-five percent of the Grihastas must be reborn” – Srila Prabhupada.
IN CONCLUSION PRABHUS:
How can our beloved authorities pretend that the woman becomes the Guru of man?
While the devotees have failed to understand that; “WOMEN ARE INFERIOR TO MEN” Disputes and discussions will continue during centuries and centuries.
Thank you.
Your servant,
Rupa Raghunath Swami.
In Kali-yuga, religion will be defeated by irreligion, truth by falsehood, kings by thieves, and men will be overpowered by women. (parasara smriti 1.30). God or Sriman Narayana supports Brahminical patriarchy. But this kali yuga is the age of satan or kali purush. Satan is the father of feminism. he is the liberator of women. As per Bavishya Purana at the beginning of Kali-yuga, lord Narayana himself gave a boon to the Kali demon and his wife Alakshmi that in this age all their wishes would be fulfilled and their followers would rule the world. so the power of the whole world will go to women and men will be their pet dogs in Kali Yuga.
Quote: “to repeat the words that someone has said or written” If SP didn’t actually say it then it is not a quote.I t is extremely intellectually sloppy to misquote someone and then say it is a quote. It doesn’t inspire trust or confidence. I certainly would from now on not take anything written by the author on face value but look up every reference if I bothered to read the writings of such a known imprecise writer.
I believe you and others are overreacting. Srila Prabhupada himself did not translate the verses from Srimad Bhagavatam, Caitanya Caritamrta and the Bhagavad Gita to the letter. In fact, by modern Western editorial standards, some of his translations have additions and subtractions that would be considered unacceptable. You could similarly say that Srila Prabhupada doesn’t inspire trust and confidence. In spiritual circles, it’s rather the purport that matters, and not so much the literality of what’s being said. It’s better to openly disagree with the author ( which given the current feminist ethos within ISKCON, is perfectly expected ) than to nitpick on such details while trying to subtly suggest that he did not act in good faith.
His Grace Raghunath Swami has done a great service compiling this list.
Sitalatma as usual, lies. Yes, these are quotes, contrary to Sitalatma’s contention. They and many, many more such quotes are found in books, tapes and letters.
Perhaps the Swami in some case is quoting from memory. This I do and my gurumaharaja also did. When AC Bhaktivedanta repeats some quote it isn’t necessarily word for word.
What is necessary, that Sitalatma is far away from, is realizing the purport of the spiritual master–the meaning.
The meaning in all Vedic sastra concerning women is that due to the subtle body they have crafted through past activity they are presently mired in passion and ignorance, unable to achieve the mode of goodness.
Therefore varnasrama is not an afterthought on the part of the Supreme Lord as Sitalatma has erroneously concluded.
The purport of guru, sastra and sadhu in regard to the soul incarnated as woman is that in order for her to achieve success in that form she must become chaste and faithful to her husband.
( In this age girls unfortunately engage in sex from an early age spoiling their bodies with birth control also diverting them away from forming a firm attachment to husband later )
We may raise arguments–” What if the husband isn’t perfect? ” for example. His Grace Swami Raghunath has provided His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta’s answers to that very question ( which again shows the necessity of a woman’s subservience )
What the Swami has expertly done is prove by dint of his personal realization that women are unfit to guide men. Sitalatma finds this idea objectionable and unacceptable.
So the problem is laid bare–women unable to surrender to husband or unfortunate in the present life to get the opportunity and men who cannot grasp this Vedic concept do not like the opinion of guru, sastra and sadhu.
Obviously then we should not falsely think the opinions of such imperfect people have any value or validity. They are unfortunate souls. We must take the authority’s opinion and reject the rascal’s opinion.
Many of these are not quotes, though. They are Maharaja’s own words, not Prabhupada’s, or maybe they his translations from Spanish back to English, and we can see that much has been lost.
You are just making up your own definition of what a quote is, especially when it’s accompanied by exact reference to the source.
By altering Srila Prabhupada’s words the meaning also gets altered, and so what we read is not exactly what Srila Prabhupada said on this subject. One little change here, one little change there, one omission after another, and the full picture gets distorted. These so called “quotes” also do not have a commentary, there are only two sentences given in conclusion, one of them repeating what Srila Prabhupada never said himself.
The article says “The following are quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s purports…” but they are not. I checked the first five and only one of them can be accepted as a direct quote, and even then not exactly to the letter, the rest are only paraphrasing what Srila Prabhupada actually said. Key points are being omitted, like that the woman is an obstacle for men, for brahmacharis and sannyasis, or that it’s woman’s understanding that is inferior. Maybe these omissions are justified, maybe not, but these are not Srila Prabhupada’a actual words even if they are presented as such.
SB 7.12.9
If one cannot understand the basic principle of restraining association between man and woman, he is to be considered an animal. That is the purport of this verse.
SB 3.31.40
Similarly, association with a woman begins when one accepts service from her, because woman is especially created by the Lord to give service to man.
SB 1.9.48
It is said that Gāndhārī also voluntarily blindfolded her eyes because of the blindness of her husband. A wife’s duty is to follow the husband cent-percent.
SB 6.17.34-35
Thus even in the higher statuses of life there is a difference between the understanding of a male and that of a female. It may be clearly said that the understanding of a woman is always inferior to the understanding of a man. In the Western countries there is now agitation to the effect that man and woman should be considered equal, but from this verse it appears that woman is always less intelligent than man.
SB 2.7.6
During the first stage of life, up to twenty-five years of age, a man may be trained as a brahmacārī under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master just to understand that woman is the real binding force in material existence. If one wants to get freedom from the material bondage of conditional life, he must get free from the attraction for the form of woman. Woman, or the fair sex, is the enchanting principle for the living entities, and the male form, especially in the human being, is meant for self-realization. The whole world is moving under the spell of womanly attraction, and as soon as a man becomes united with a woman, he at once becomes a victim of material bondage under a tight knot.
SB 7.12.7
Brahmacarya essentially means the vow not to marry but to observe strict celibacy (bṛhad-vrata). A brahmacārī or sannyāsī should avoid talking with women or reading literature concerning talks between man and woman. The injunction restricting association with women is the basic principle of spiritual life. Associating or talking with women is never advised in any of the Vedic literatures. The entire Vedic system teaches one to avoid sex life so that one may gradually progress from brahmacarya to gṛhastha, from gṛhastha to vānaprastha, and from vānaprastha to sannyāsa and thus give up material enjoyment, which is the original cause of bondage to this material world.
SB 4.18.3
In the Manu-smṛti it is stated that a woman should not be given independence, but should be given protection by her father, husband and elderly sons. In all circumstances a woman should remain dependent upon some guardian. Presently women are given full independence like men, but actually we can see that such independent women are no happier than those women who are placed under guardians. If people follow the injunctions given by the great sages, śrutis and smṛtis, they can actually be happy in both this life and the next. Unfortunately rascals are manufacturing so many ways and means to be happy.
Two significant words used in this verse are asmin and amuṣmin. Asmin means “in this life,” and amuṣmin means “in the next life.”
SB 9.10.11
And when she was married she was protected by her husband. Therefore the conclusion is that a woman should always be protected. According to the Vedic rule, there is no scope for a woman’s being independent (asamakṣam), for a woman cannot protect herself independently.
SB 3.23.2
Thus the natural instinct is that the husband wants to post himself as superior to the wife, and this must be observed. Even if there is some wrong on the part of the husband, the wife must tolerate it, and thus there will be no misunderstanding between husband and wife.
Dear Sitalatma Prabhu Pranaam,
I have checked few quotes with vedabase which are as following: There is no difference between what Srila Prabupada mentioned in his writings and above article. Kindly read through. Hare Krsna!
SB 7.12.9
If one cannot understand the basic principle of restraining association between man and woman, he is to be considered an animal. That is the purport of this verse.
SB 3.31.40
Similarly, association with a woman begins when one accepts service from her, because woman is especially created by the Lord to give service to man.
SB 1.9.48
It is said that Gāndhārī also voluntarily blindfolded her eyes because of the blindness of her husband. A wife’s duty is to follow the husband cent-percent.
SB 6.17.34-35
Thus even in the higher statuses of life there is a difference between the understanding of a male and that of a female. It may be clearly said that the understanding of a woman is always inferior to the understanding of a man. In the Western countries there is now agitation to the effect that man and woman should be considered equal, but from this verse it appears that woman is always less intelligent than man.
SB 2.7.6
During the first stage of life, up to twenty-five years of age, a man may be trained as a brahmacārī under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master just to understand that woman is the real binding force in material existence. If one wants to get freedom from the material bondage of conditional life, he must get free from the attraction for the form of woman. Woman, or the fair sex, is the enchanting principle for the living entities, and the male form, especially in the human being, is meant for self-realization. The whole world is moving under the spell of womanly attraction, and as soon as a man becomes united with a woman, he at once becomes a victim of material bondage under a tight knot.
SB 7.12.7
Brahmacarya essentially means the vow not to marry but to observe strict celibacy (bṛhad-vrata). A brahmacārī or sannyāsī should avoid talking with women or reading literature concerning talks between man and woman. The injunction restricting association with women is the basic principle of spiritual life. Associating or talking with women is never advised in any of the Vedic literatures. The entire Vedic system teaches one to avoid sex life so that one may gradually progress from brahmacarya to gṛhastha, from gṛhastha to vānaprastha, and from vānaprastha to sannyāsa and thus give up material enjoyment, which is the original cause of bondage to this material world.
SB 4.18.3
In the Manu-smṛti it is stated that a woman should not be given independence, but should be given protection by her father, husband and elderly sons. In all circumstances a woman should remain dependent upon some guardian. Presently women are given full independence like men, but actually we can see that such independent women are no happier than those women who are placed under guardians. If people follow the injunctions given by the great sages, śrutis and smṛtis, they can actually be happy in both this life and the next. Unfortunately rascals are manufacturing so many ways and means to be happy.
Two significant words used in this verse are asmin and amuṣmin. Asmin means “in this life,” and amuṣmin means “in the next life.”
SB 9.10.11
And when she was married she was protected by her husband. Therefore the conclusion is that a woman should always be protected. According to the Vedic rule, there is no scope for a woman’s being independent (asamakṣam), for a woman cannot protect herself independently.
SB 3.23.2
Thus the natural instinct is that the husband wants to post himself as superior to the wife, and this must be observed. Even if there is some wrong on the part of the husband, the wife must tolerate it, and thus there will be no misunderstanding between husband and wife.
There’s no difference?
SB 7.12.9
Prabhupada:
If one cannot understand the basic principle of restraining association between man and woman, he is to be considered an animal.
The article:
He who does not see the difference between a man and a woman should be considered an animal
SB 3.31.40
Prabhupada:
Similarly, association with a woman begins when one accepts service from her, because woman is especially created by the Lord to give service to man.
The article:
God created the woman to serve the man
SB 6.17.34-35
Prabhupada:
Thus even in the higher statuses of life there is a difference between the understanding of a male and that of a female. It may be clearly said that the understanding of a woman is always inferior to the understanding of a man. In the Western countries there is now agitation to the effect that man and woman should be considered equal, but from this verse it appears that woman is always less intelligent than man.
The article:
Even at the highest levels of existence, women are INFERIOR the men.
SB 2.7.6
Prabhupada:
During the first stage of life, up to twenty-five years of age, a man may be trained as a brahmacārī under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master just to understand that woman is the real binding force in material existence. If one wants to get freedom from the material bondage of conditional life, he must get free from the attraction for the form of woman. Woman, or the fair sex, is the enchanting principle for the living entities, and the male form, especially in the human being, is meant for self-realization. The whole world is moving under the spell of womanly attraction, and as soon as a man becomes united with a woman, he at once becomes a victim of material bondage under a tight knot.
The article:
The woman is an OBSTACLE in self-realization (the masculine form is for SELF-REALIZATION)
This is from the first five I mentioned earlier.
What is presented in the article are NOT quotes, even if someone considers that they convey exactly the same meaning. That’s NOT how the quotes are made and presented. These are NOT Srila Prabhupada’s words.
Why are we even arguing about this?
One could say that we can learn all these things from Srila Prabhupada’s purports, but how can one call them “quotes”? They aren’t.
Yes, it seems that they are not quotes but rather paraphrased versions of the same. However, it’s not really a big deal since the message hasn’t really changed.
Instead of stating “woman is especially created by the Lord to give service to man” (SB 3.31.40, Purport), the article says “God created the woman to serve the man.”
Instead of stating “A wife’s duty is to follow the husband cent-percent.”(SB 1.9.48, Purport), the article says “The woman’s duty is to follow the husband one hundred percent.”
There might be a difference in meaning in some of the quotes and the paraphrased versions of them. For instance, for SB 6.17.34-35, the article could have stated “woman is always less intelligent than man” (as is actually written in the purport) instead of “women are INFERIOR the men.” For that we have the Television Interview, July 9, 1975, Chicago.
Anyway, the underlying message of this article, that the wife’s duty is to follow the husband, remains true.
In my opinion, His Holiness Rupa Raghunath Swami has done a great service in compiling this list.
If they are not quotes they should not be called quotes.
“women are INFERIOR the men” has never been said by Srila Prabhupada, never mind that it’s grammatically incorrect.
The July 9, 1975 interview comes pretty close, but look at how he completes that conversation about women’s inferiority:
“Woman reporter: Would you say that women are inferior to men?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman reporter: Why?
Prabhupāda: By physiological condition. Just like you are. Your bodily features are different from the man’s features. You cannot deny it. So according to the bodily features, the psychological condition and everything is there. How you can deny it?
Woman reporter: Do you think that I am inferior to you?
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of inferior or superior. Different. Now you take one inferior or superior. That is your calculation. But the bodily features are different. That is material. But spiritually, they are all one. Materially… Just like your bodily feature and a man’s bodily feature is different. Now, so far question of inferior, superior, that is your calculation. But we say that by nature, a woman and man is different.”
How else can I explain this? Don’t give your interpretation but assign Prabhupada’s authority to it and even give verse numbers? Don’t change Prabhupada’s words? One can’t just say “this is Prabhupada’s quote” and then post some other words instead.
Why are we still talking about this? It’s the basic principle of human decency.
Yes, they are not quotes and they shouldn’t be called as such. But it’s not that big a deal since the message is still mostly the same. Whether we say that “woman is especially created by the Lord to give service to man” or “God created the woman to serve the man”, the message is essentially the same.
About the women and inferiority concept, I’m a little uncomfortable in discussing that since it’s a little too politically incorrect for me but it does seem that Śrīla Prabhupāda is saying that women are inferior to men by physiological condition. Spiritually, they are equal though.
———–
“Woman reporter: Would you say that women are inferior to men?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman reporter: Why?
Prabhupāda: By physiological condition.
———–
And then again in the book (higher level pramana) ‘Teachings of Lord Kapila 5 Lord Kapila Takes Charge of His Mother, Devahuti’, he stated
“Women are inferior to men”
———–
“Women are inferior to men” doesn’t mean that women have inherently lower ‘value’ or something like that.
Again, when Śrīla Prabhupāda said that, he was talking about bodily calculations or “physiological condition”… lower intelligence, need for protection, emotional, etc. Spiritually, they are both equal. Vaishnavis are glorious and I have a lot of respect for them.
Why not include this quote, or actually “Prabhupada memory”. It’s pertinent to the subject of women being inferior and meant to be avoided as obstacles in self-realization:
Madhavananda Dasa : In Calcutta in 1972, Srila Prabhupada was on a morning walk with a lot of brahmacharis. Some of the brahmacharis were complaining because women also lived at the Calcutta temple, at 3 Albert Road. The brahmacharis said, “Srila Prabhupada, sometimes the women don’t put their saris over their heads,” and “Why can’t the women get a place outside, separate from the brahmacharis? Their presence is not conducive to our brahmachari life.” Prabhupada was silent for the entire walk. Sometimes he stopped walking and then started again, but he didn’t respond to the brahmacharis. We came up the stairs of 3 Albert Road, someone opened the door, and there was Yamuna and Palika and Shyamasundar’s wife, Malati, and Kaushalya and Madri and other women who had stayed behind to wash the floor, cook for the Deities, bathe the Deities, dress the Deities, prepare Srila Prabhupada’s vyasasana and the cushions for the guests. The women immediately offered their obeisances and said, “Jaya, Srila Prabhupada!” Prabhupada turned to all of us and said, “But, if you associate with these women, you will go back to Godhead.”
I’m not sure why you had to repeat the same conversation about women being inferior but cut off Prabhupada’s explanation what he meant by inferiority:
“Woman reporter: Do you think that I am inferior to you?
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of inferior or superior. Different. Now you take one inferior or superior. That is your calculation. But the bodily features are different. That is material. But spiritually, they are all one. Materially… Just like your bodily feature and a man’s bodily feature is different. Now, so far question of inferior, superior, that is your calculation. But we say that by nature, a woman and man is different.”
See how in the end he changed from “inferior” to “different” and dismissed all these “inferiority” arguments as arising from the material platform. Not that we should ignore these differences, but talking about them as inferior he said was “your calculation”.
“Why not include this quote, or actually “Prabhupada memory”. It’s pertinent to the subject of women being inferior and meant to be avoided as obstacles in self-realization:”
—> When Śrīla Prabhupāda was talking about inferiority, he wasn’t saying that women have inherently lower ‘value’ or something like that. He was talking about the “physiological condition”. The material body. He said that spiritually they are equal. Therefore, that quote is not super relevant because it not only doesn’t mention the word ‘inferior’ but also doesn’t talk about the notion of ‘inferiority’ as Śrīla Prabhupāda defined it.
“I’m not sure why you had to repeat the same conversation about women being inferior but cut off Prabhupada’s explanation what he meant by inferiority”
—> I included this part (and before writing this I mentioned that “Spiritually, they are equal though.”)
“Woman reporter: Why?
Prabhupāda: By physiological condition.”
For some, that much may be enough to understand that when Śrīla Prabhupāda was talking about the notion of ‘inferiority’, he was talking about bodily calculations or “By physiological condition.” Others may want more explanation which is cool, but I assumed that that much would be enough for those who are familiar with what Śrīla Prabhupāda meant when he said “By physiological condition.”… lower intelligence, need protection, emotional, etc. Certainly these are bodily calculations and as mentioned in my previous comment already, “Spiritually, they are equal though.”
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And then again in the book (higher level pramana) ‘Teachings of Lord Kapila 5 Lord Kapila Takes Charge of His Mother, Devahuti’, he stated
“Women are inferior to men” Those are the exact words written in that book in that same exact order. Again, “physiological condition”…lower intelligence, need protection, emotional, etc.
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Spiritually, men and women are all equal. All Vaishnavis are glorious and I offer my obeisances to them. And I am deeply thankful to them for helping out Śrīla Prabhupāda when he needed them and for being the good mothers that they are.
But
“Your bodily features are different from the man’s features. You cannot deny it. So according to the bodily features, the psychological condition and everything is there. How you can deny it?” (Television Interview, July 9, 1975, Chicago)
Just something to keep in the back of the mind. We don’t need to be jerks and use those quotes to put them down unnecessarily. Vaishnavis are glorious, I’m sure that they are very dear to Śrīla Prabhupāda and personally, I offer my obeisances to them and am really thankful to them for being the good mothers that they are. But at the same time, “You cannot deny it” (July 9, 1975).
Ok you win Prabhu. However I don’t seeing any difference between the actual quote meaning and what RRS mentioned in the article. So for us that must be more important. Arguing without any reason is not good.
The most important thing for us is to preserve Srila Prabhupada’s message, especially when we call it “quotes”. Only after that we can start arguing what it means. On the meaning you are right – these paraphrases are very close in original, but if we replace them in the article with Prabhupada’s actual words then the message won’t be as sharp and one-pointed. This selection and rewording is author’s own creation and contribution to understanding Srila Prabhupada’s thinking on this topic. Another person can create a different collection of quotes and argue that “inferior” does not apply to female ISKCON devotees. Not that men and women in ISKCON can associate freely. As we can see from another quote discussed in comments – in ISKCON, spiritually speaking, we are different, not inferior or superior.
Shastra is the basis of faith; one who lacks faith in shastra is called atheist. Shastra Chaksus means seeing through the shastra, not with our imperfect senses.