Discussion On The Female Diksha Guru Issue: Amongst Godbrothers-6

Godbrother:

Today, armchair observers may agree or disagree. But we who preach to Westerners every day know that what Srila Prabhupada did in America still works, and imposing Vedic social constructs does not. Outside studies affirm that today’s Western youth largely judge religious organizations by how they treat women.

Basu Ghosh Das:

Au contraire. This faulty assessment needs to explain why numerous reputed sources (e.g. a 2018 study by Pew Research), more Americans are now converting to Islam than ever before. Some have claimed that 20,000 Americans (of all ethnic backgrounds) convert to Islam each year. And this is at a time when (out of all traditional religions) Islam has perhaps the worst reputation of all regarding its treatment of women.

Another historical fact none can deny is that all established and mainstream religions share pretty much the same traditional (i.e., “repressive”) views regarding women.

I would expect an interpretation of these facts especially from those who disparagingly compare ISKCON conservatives to extremists; I suspect any in-depth analysis might reveal a surprising degree of subconscious Marxist-feminist presuppositions. Perhaps this is why advocates of pseudo-egalitarianism generally flee at the first suggestion of serious sastrartha.

Call it “chala-dharma,” as Sukadeva Gosvami does (SB 7.15.13).

Godbrother:

As for ISKCON women giving diksa, we love Srila Prabhupada’s answer, “Some but not many.” ‘Not many’ is not equal to ‘none’. If there are a few, that will suffice to show Western youth that we practice what we preach.

Basu Ghosh Das:

Laksmidevi, Jahnava Devi, maybe Gangamata. That’s a few already, so according to the above argument, this should satisfy Western youths that we practice what we preach.

Therefore it sounds to me that he actually wants something other than what he says.

Godbrother:

Today, our ashrams are stuffed full of blissful young devotees. These bright and capable young devotees who sometimes struggle putting faith in ISKCON are overjoyed by the GBC resolution that you ask to rescind.

Basu Ghosh Das:

It’s better to just be straight with people from the start; don’t compromise or hide what Prabhupada’s books actually teach (and how he factually applied those teachings as did his predecessors). And don’t try to argue that somehow Srila Prabhupada disagreed with his own gurus either. Otherwise when people find out the truth, they will reject anyone who tried to mislead them.

And as Prabhupada himself said about the GBC, who will want to follow anyone who is disobedient himself?

This women’s issue is a bit like the fifth canto and moon controversy; those simply lacking faith (as did Purusottama dasa) may leave—and Prabhupada correctly predicted that many would indeed leave. Actually it’s better that way. We only need completely faithful disciples (i.e., moons)—not so many twinkling stars.

Those whose faith in guru/sadhu/sastra is weaker tend to go “utpataiva kalpate.”

Godbrother:

So again, my specific question: In your opinion, what is wrong with different standards in different places?

Basu Ghosh Das:

Double standards don’t work when we’re talking about core theological principles such as basic pramanas—which seems to be the crux of the matter here.

Social standards can and do vary in different times, places, and circumstances—as long as the ruling authority works under proper brahminical guidance of guru, sadhu, and sastra. There are indeed different standards. Vamana Purana (11.15-28) discusses those in Puskaradvipa, mentioning that demons have a different dharma than do the siddhas, gandharvas, vidyadharas, kimpurusas, pitrs, sages, humans, yaksas, raksasas, and pisacas, respectively. But we can’t say these dharmas are all equivalent. If one wants to practice daitya-dharma but still consider it Vaisnava-dharma, that is as inconsistent with sastra as would be to claim that one can go back to Godhead no matter which Deity one worships. In other words, it’s a kind of mayavada logic.

Or in many cases, ISKCON managers reject the standard pramanas Prabhupada’s books established and instead worked whimsically—which is both sinful and offensive (BG 16.23-24).

Again, who can respect any such “authority”? Only like-minded cheaters.

Perhaps this is why (and how) the Bon Maharaja School of Oriental Philosophy (an endeavor essentially independent of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura) eventually morphed into a co-ed Polytechnic school geared towards moneymaking.