Vaiyasaki Das: Can anyone enlighten this sanga why Jahnava Mata Iswari, Gangamata Goswamini, and Hemalata Thakurani were diska gurus in our Gaudiya Vaishnava parampara and who also had male disciples?
Basu Ghosh Das: What kind of diksha gurus where the above mentioned lady devotees, Vaiyasaki Das Prabhu? Did they confer the sacred thread to other ladies? I very much doubt it, because even in the caste goswami families – their descendants – even today ladies do NOT wear the sacred thread.
The diksha introduced by Srila Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Thakur and our Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada incorporated the vedic upanayanam. Tradition is that women DO NOT receive it.
Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta before him DID NOT confer it to ladies.
Read the purport of Prabhupada copied herein above, again.
[SB 4.12.32]Therein Prabhupada wrote that women can be shiksha gurus (and padapradarshak gurus) and that the shiksha guru and the diksha guru are the same! But he forbid — not only in this purport, but then refer to the purport of his to Bhagavad-gita 16.7 — women from being traditional diksha gurus.
Prabhupada never made even ONE woman a TP or GBC. The duties of diksha guru are outside the purview of stridharma – the duties of women.
Such is the ignorance that someone wrote to me that Prabhupada never talked about or taught “stridharma”!
But it’s right there in the Bhagavatam 1.9.27 – IN THE VERSE ITSELF.
Prabhu, you are an intelligent person. Then why fall into the trap of the Western, leftist, liberal, egalitarian, equal rights ethos that is so so so politically correct in the West, amongst our fellow mlecchas and yavanas, but is clearly in contradiction to what Prabhupada, our previous acharyas, and vedic culture and tradition teach?
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This is called KALIYUG POWER.. even intelligent person's intelligence also captivating by Kali.
So many things we already compromised according to time, place and circumstances. But it can not apply all the time. It will be dangerous.
Other thing is, We can not generalize exceptional examples. If we do so then, there will be everything mashed up.
So go ahead to allow female Diksha Guru and help KALIKAL to grow..this is also Krishna service.
Hare Krishna.
"Ask your wife to chant this mantra and you hear it and if possible hold a fire ceremony as you have seen during your marriage and get this sacred thread on your body. Saradia, or any twice-initiated devotee, may perform the ceremony." - His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Letter to Vaikunthanatha, Saradia -- Bombay 4 April, 1971
That was an emergency situation as Vaikunthanatha Prabhu needed second initiation for deity worship but he and his wife were alone in a new country, Guyana, with no other brahman initiated devotees around. Gayatri tapes were probably not yet invented.
Preceding passage in that letter says something interesting:
"So concentrate your efforts in that way and when things are ready I shall send you Deities. And when the situation is favorable, I shall go there also.
Even though you have had no gayatri mantra, still you are more than brahmana. I am enclosing herewith your sacred thread, duly chanted on by me...."
Simply by preaching fearlessly one becomes more than a brahmana and the thread is needed only (or mostly) for deity worship. In other words - why make so much fuss out of formal initiation rituals? If someone gets inspired by a female devotee and the sentiment is genuine - why demand public recognition of this relationship? Don't we have enough examples of Lord Caitanya and His devotees avoiding floating the rules and stirring the public unnecessarily? Our FDG candidates have their faithful following already, what do they think will change with initiation ritual?
Sitalatma
Srila Prabhupada did not give women sacred thread. You are misreading the letter.
What I find troubling about your many comments is this way you have of ASSUMING women as a class or specific women are highly elevated.
You yourself would have to be highly elevated in order to recognize high elevation. I do not find this the case.
The case I find is Mayavadism.
You are thinking " all are
equal ". That means no one is advanced and no one requires a guru. You speak nonsense.
- Mayesa dasa
I can easily see that many of these "women as a class or specific women" are more elevated than me, a nonsensical mayavadi. They are certainly more dedicated to pushing forward Srila Prabhupada's mission than myself and so they can be a source of inspiration and/or mercy. Unfortunately, I think I have lost yours, Mayesa Prabhu, so what hope is left there for me?
Another error on your part. You say these women are more elevated than you. Then how are you able to judge their elevation, Sitalatma?