The GBC has approved female diksa-gurus for areas self-determined by regional governing bodies. This means that the devotees responsible for ISKCON in a given geographic area will be able to say whether they will allow women to act as diksa-guru (mantropadesh guru) within their zone. The measure passed by only five votes, and there were two abstentions. 27 members of the GBC were present for the vote. Before the measure becomes official, it will be voted on by the SABHA (Spiritual Advisors Bhagavata Assembly) and then will need to be vetted by ISKCON’s legal office before becoming final. The measure is expected to pass.
Other sources interviewed by The Hans India claimed that ISKCON’s Governing Body “did not come to any conclusion on the contentious issue which will be taken up again in the next GBC meeting”. However, an official resolution has already been released to the public.
The GBC has now formally endorsed two incompatible views in the matter of determining whether one can be a guru: one view follows shastra and the other abandons shastra. “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” Thus the GBC has formalized the start of a schism. This will break ISKCON permanently and destroy its preaching.
This is also the beginning of the end of ISKCON as an institution that follows sanatana dharma. yah sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karatah / na sa siddhim avapnoti na sukham na param gatim, “He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination” (Bhagavad-gita 16.23). Therefore, any institution that discards scriptural injunction will no longer be able to help its members achieve perfection.
It is a sad day in the history of the sankirtana movement that such a decision against shastra has taken place in the holy dham of Tirupati. This is very sad.
[Note: photo of GBC is a file photo from an older meeting, not current meeting at Tirupati.]
very good content. thanks for sharing
The article has been edited to indicate that “The measure passed by only five votes”. With two abstentions it means 15+10+2=27. It would be interesting to know name of those ten GBC devotees who disagreed. I mean to raise this topic in a public discussion today requires one to know where every participant stands first. Perhaps some devotees will discover that their guru voted in a “wrong” way too. Imagine the surprise.
Btw, “The measure passed by only two votes, and there were two abstentions. 29 members of the GBC were present for the vote” doesn’t compute mathematically. If one side had two more votes than the other then the total must be an even number, ie 13+15=28 or 14+16=30. Two abstentions means the total yes+no should still be an odd number.
It would be nice to have correct numbers so that this article could be used as reference.
Birth
I was thinking today about this issue of women guru which my spiritual master did not approve of ( an understatement ) and thinking how the decision directly denies sastra.
In Bhagavad gita we learn that each soul is travelling through the species based upon his karma. This woman guru decision ignores karma by pretending ( as modern karmis do ) that the soul in question was accidentally awarded a woman’s body.
In other words, except for the outer covering men and women are exactly the same. Of course when we say this we are denying sastra and guru.
In a Srimad Bhagavatam purport His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta comments on Prahlada Maharaja’s mother.
She had been taken to Narada Muni’s hermitage and heard him speak. But she later forgot Narada’s instructions though she was an adult whereas her son still in her womb was able to retain them.
Her inability to remember had everything to do with her subtle body.
Someone.might argue that the GBC members took this into account. That would be speculation.
In fact we know neither the GBC nor those supporting this decision have given the subtle body any consideration whatsoever. Instead they are thinking exactly as karmis do that what we take birth as is an accident.
That is stated in Bhagavad gita. ” The demonic say the world is simply the result of sex life ” Bg. Gita 16.8
It is instructive to note the next verse. Bg. Gita 16.9
” Following such conclusions the demons engage in work to destroy the world “
Voting means democracy
Means demon crazy
It will destroyed to Iskcon very fast.
GBC Members who was voted for the same , he can not have scence of Shashtra.
Iam sorry is diksha guru the name of us female diskha guru
Dandavt pranaam
Please accept my homble obbeices
Dear dikshas guru and gbc members guru please let us now about our female shiksha gurus thank you very much
Your most fallen servant Radhacharan das (krdm)
Kindly publish the names of all those who voted in support, who voted against, the ones who kept out. Saadhu Savdhaann!!!
Hare Krishna, I love krishna, thanks.
http://www.bhrigupandit.com
From the biography of Gangamata Goswamini, one of the female initiating gurus in our line:
“Late that night, King Mukunda Deva saw Lord Jagannatha in a dream. Jagannatha angrily told him: “Immediately release Sachi devi from your dungeons. It was because I wanted to personally arrange for washing her holy feet that I had the Ganges bring her to my Temple. If you want your life to be auspicious, then you had better make the pandas and pujaris bow at her feet and pray for forgiveness. You yourself must take initiation from her.”
Check the last sentence – the order to become diksha guru came from Lord Jagannatha Himself. I’m sure our regional GBC authorities are all nice and mature devotees, but Lord Jagannath is in a different class altogether.
It wasn’t the only time Lord Jagannath intervened on her behalf either.
This is in response to the argument that we had FDG before. We had, but these precedents set the bar impossibly high.
“The GBC has approved female diksa-gurus for areas self-determined by regional governing bodies. This means that the devotees responsible for ISKCON in a given geographic area will be able to say whether they will allow women to act as diksa-guru (mantropadesh guru) within their zone.”
This means GBC has delegated decision making on FDG to regional authorities, which is curious because it poses a whole new set of questions regarding what is considered “siddhanta” in our society. Also, aren’t gurus approved by the whole GBC body via “no objection” process, or has that been delegated to local authorities , too?
I found this newspaper article which is contradicting your article. Please clarify. Thank you.
https://www.thehansindia.com/andhra-pradesh/iskcon-gbc-meet-yet-to-take-a-decision-on-female-deeksha-guru-573228
Gitamrita, this was refuted a hundred times. outdated news
True
Could you please confirm the above article? And could you please also provide the names of the vote?
And also I am curious to know Who is behind your webpage. Thank you.
People are suffering from million of life times in the cycle of birth , death , old age and disease.. and GBC is very busy in doing all this non sense rules which will break ISKCON into further fragments .. why should they go against sadhu , Guru and Shastra ?? People think they are better than Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati thakur .. better leave iskcon and continue Bhakti
What will happen to ISKCON’s reputation when one of the new FDGs falls as her Godbrothers have fallen? Did the GBC accept the recommendation that a FDG must be 55+? If not, imagine the scandal when a FDG is found to have had a secret abortion to preserve her reputation. If so, how will the GBC explain such a bodily platform requirement when so many other requirements are being ignored? Looks like we may need to update Bhaktivinoda’s list to add a 14th apasampradaya.
Woman guru, man guru…….the basic vaishnava understanding is that the guru cannot bring you in touch with Krishna unless they are intimately in touch with Krishna. Therefore the whole guru business in Iskcon is a sham. What good can they do for their so-called disciples? If one is actually self-realized and in intimate relationship with Krishna, what need is there for the votes of a GBC? Who can stop such a person from giving mercy to disciples? What is the proper zone for a self-realized mahabhagavata? And what mahabhagavata will wait for votes by the foolish neophytes? The Christians are more advanced. They baptize in the name of Jesus. They don’t claim to save initiates on their own. But the Iskcon gurus push Srila Prabhupada aside and take the new initiate as their own. And what can they do for such initiate when they cannot even save themselves? In this way Iskcon has become another society of the cheaters and the cheated. Fools and rascals all.
Jahnava Thakurani was not a woman She is a Shakti don’t use her exemple to justify your ideas about Ladies becoming gurus
There is also a book on the subject written by the minister of congregational development, Kaunteya Das (JPS) and his guru HH Jayapataka Swami:
https://sites.google.com/site/eyeofthestormbooks/
There has been a shastric conclusion that women can became diksha gurus:
http://gbc.iskcon.org/female-diksa-guru/
Prabhupada never said that ISKCON should have women on the GBC, and yet we now have two! He never said that ISKCON must have female temple presidents, but now we have them! He did say, however, that his female disciples should be allowed, if they can pass a written test, to have their own disciples!
The ISKCON GBC has obviously come to realize that FDGs within ISKCON are inevitable. For one thing, it’s Srila Prabhupada’s crystal-clear instruction that if men are allowed to initiate disciples on their own behalf, then the women should also be allowed! For another, the world is moving in the direction of equal opportunities for women!
But why has it taken so long for the GBC to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to this inevitable conclusion? For one thing, ISKCON’s (male) “gurus” consider a female “guru” to be “unfair competition.” Why? Because many prospective female disciples would rather take initiation from a woman than from a man who glances at them lustily. (Young, beautiful women, generally speaking, are very sensitive about such things.) Therefore, the GBC body, which is composed mostly of male “gurus,” is strongly self-motivated, for the sake of self-preservation, to reject any and all female diksha guru candidates!
They thought allowing 2 women and one murder accomplice on the GBC wasn’t a big a deal and now such an important decision was won by 2 votes
Hare Krishna,
Dear guru’s and GBC members PAMHO AGTSP, I’m requesting your attention, please this is not the time to make female gurus in our society, and this is not the time to compare with jahnva mata. When PRABHUPADA didn’t made any female gurus why we need to create problem in our society and go through so many questions and answers. And majority of our guru parampara are men so better to leave as it is please
Srila Prabhupada’s purport to SB 4.12.32:
“It is the duty of the siksa-guru or diksa-guru to instruct the disciple in the right way, and it depends on the disciple to execute the process. According to sastric injunctions, there is no difference between siksa-guru and diksa-guru, and generally the siksa-guru later on becomes the diksa-guru. Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja’s diksa-guru.”
http://www.iskconstandards.com/Vaisnavi_Guru/
Does the GBC realize that it has just re-established the zonal guru system, which it had previously repudiated? Certainly there have been female diksha-gurus in our lineage, but they have been truly exceptional personalities such as Jahnava Devi and Gangamata Goswamini. If either of these exalted women were alive today, do you believe that they would be willing to sign the GBC’s institutional loyalty oath and submit to their zonal restrictions? Of course not! This latest move by the GBC only makes plain what was previously implicit — that ISKCON’s gurus, male or female, are bureaucratic functionaries who value institutional advancement ahead of spiritual realization. It would have been far wiser if the GBC had affirmed that female diksa-gurus are valid within our tradition, but had then RAISED the standards for men and women alike.
Is there any sastry evidence than one can become guru in one geography cal area and in other place .
Also maya proved that she is stronger then the GBC members collectively
Nail in the coffin
A self realized soul becomes Guru by the order and blessings of his Guru and respective Parampara Acharyas not by voting, election or administrative process.
Is it bona fide to vote for if something is bona fide or not ? What is the balance of Guru Sastra and Sadhu in this case ?
Let’s hope the official announcement make some sense. How they are going to impose these geographical restrictions? When the plane takes off in the West you are guru, but when it lands in India you are not? At what point exactly your guru-ness gets revoked and you are no longer has to be treated “as good as God”. Do you have to wait for plane captain’s announcement of crossing into India’s airspace?
It would be easier to say “You can pretend to be a guru in this country but cannot in that country”, but that would be just mean. Only really evil minds would say that looks like a real description of the situation.
Downfall of ISKCON started. It’s a sinking ship with FDGs and GBC
Which scriptural injuction forbids women to become guru?
Sria Prabhupada has actually said that women can become guru during an interview in Toronto 1976:
Prof. O’Connell: Is it possible, Swāmījī, for a woman to be a guru in the line of disciplic succession?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jāhnavā devī was—Nityānanda’s wife. She became. If she is able to go to the highest perfection of life, why it is not possible to become guru? But, not so many. Actually one who has attained the perfection, she can become guru. But man or woman, unless one has attained the perfection… Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). The qualification of guru is that he must be fully cognizant of the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then he or she can become guru. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya. (break) In our material world, is it any prohibition that woman cannot become professor? If she is qualified, she can become professor. What is the wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. So similarly, if the woman understands Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly, she can become guru.